Improve Gas MPG...?

[FiEND]

that's what I was getting until Dom got me some plugs, wires and distributor stuff.  the old stuff was really in bad shape.  still expensive though compared to my 5.2 and 3 L/100Km bikes. 

although last year when i was living out of town and had the 80km/h highway drive i pumped up the toyos to 28lbs and got minimum 375 and max 400 Km to a tank.

and i rarely go over 3000 rpm before shifting.

[Bnine]

I dont know why you are turning this into a pissing contest.  I know you are well versed in jeep building.  I have read a lot of your posts, lots of good info.  I am not saying youre wrong either.  Most ppl build engines with forced induction to make bigger power.  That is fine.

I have seen the proof in buddies 4.0l v6 toyota tacoma.  What can I saw, I saw the proof.  At first, I didnt believe him, until he showed me monthly fuel receipts and the kms travelled that went with them (all as part of our reporting).  He was saving money on fuel at a rate that is much faster than you would think.  No it isnt the same technology, but the basic principal is the same, forced induction reduces the effect of elevation by pressurizing the manifold to create a more dense air charge.  This gives your engine the opportunity to work less to complete the same task.  As I said above, I was skeptical of all this, but the proof was in his numbers.

Right now my buddy has a vorteched 97 cobra, and when he is crusing down the high way he makes 0-1psi.  The engine will only create boost under load conditions...thats why if you rev the snot out of a blown engine in neutral it will make little to no boost.  No boost, no extra air, no extra fuel.

Factory blown shelby gt500's with a eaton blower (not very efficient) over a 5.4 dohc with that makes 550hp is rated for 32 mpg.  I would not call that famously bad mileage, but that is my opinion.

Internals on an engine really only involve the crank, rods, bearings and pistons...with changing these parts alone, I dont know how anyone could expect a change in mileage, save for going to a stroker then I would say you could anticipate worse mileage.  Head/Cam/Intake could have an effect, as the root of all your power and efficiently (as in where you make your power) comes from the head and the cam.  Electric fan will save you 3-4 hp.  K&N will get you 2-3 hp on a good day.

As far as "what I have done?"  I built up a N/A 5.0l mustang a few years ago, while my roommate was building up his vorteched cobra while another buddy was building (and blowing up) a 3.8l v6 mustang turbo that made 442 rwhp on a dyno in Calgary.  I have also ran a couple chevy Gen II LT1's into the ground, and thats about it.

I wont take " my 10 thousand" anywhere because I dont have a 10k go and frack around with my jeep fund.  I use my jeep for work.  I cant have it being unreliable. 

Oh, and for anyone who is interested, I ran to Sparwood BC today to supervise some drill cuttings disposal, which meant I was on site for a bit, on a logging road that has a speed limit of 30, fumed around at the CCS landfill in Pincher creek and drove home only to put on 611 kms and burn 84.6L of fuel.  That works out to 13.8l/100kms.  I dont have cruise so it was all drive by pedal, and when on the highway I tried to maintain a speed of 115kph, but I fell short of that due to the hills.

This Jeep has a factory rating of 15.0l/100km in the city (19mpg) and 25mpg on the highway as per the window sticker.

Nothing to do with a pissing contest and everything to do with the frustration of trying to talk to someone with new grad engineer brain.

People that think they are so smart it makes them stupid.

Of course if you dont load a 2500lb car with a 500hp motor it will get good milage. 500 hp vettes also get 30 some miles to the gallon.

These cars are aerodynamic, take minimal hp to go down the road at 60mph, have computerized transmissions that drop line pressure at cruising speeds, are less then half the weight of a jeep, have variable tuning, are completely rollerized, overhead cams, balanced rotating assemblies.....................................

People have taken high mileage motors and put them into jeeps. They still loose mileage because of weight, drivetrain losses, and aero dynamics.

You cant be serious bringing this stuff into this conversation.

Your freinds tacoma has variable valve timing, and whole slew of other tech behind it that makes it completely irrelevant to this conversation.  Can you even fathom what the effect of variable valve timing is on power and effeciency for any engine?

Do you realize how arcaic that makes a push rod 4 litre?

Did you know that the 4 litre was discontinued because there was NOTHING the manufacturer could to anymore to get that motor to meet epa rags for mileage and emissions?

People have been putting blowers on jeeps for years. The tech is not there to afford any gains.

For you to come in here blathering about mustangs, tacomas, super chargers, and what ever other unrelated bullshit you can think of in an attempt to try and make some point that is not applicable to the 4 litre application what so ever is just annoying.


By the way, the only thing a k&n does on a jeep is dirty the motor up. The stock intake already flows more then the cam and head allow for in stock form.

Electric fans only provide a minor gain when they arent running. Which is almost never on a jeep. Whether you load the alternator or the fan pulley, it makes no difference. Modern clutch fans dont put a lot of drag on the motor until they engage.

All this ricer tech bullshit does not work the same on 4 litres, as it does on other stuff.

Im done here. A guy comes and asks about milage and a bunch of nerds start talking crap about stuff they have no clue about.



You spend the money, you do the work, you get your own god dam answers................

[rangerdanger]

Heres a solution to getting better gas mileage, remove the gas gauge so you don't have to watch it, really its a jeep if your worried about better MPG buy a honda.

[scott slade]

Alright..... wow...I am sorry I asked.   I have said a few times.... I did not buy my Jeep TJ for the mileage..... I only asked if anyone knew of a few tricks to maybe improve the miles per tank..... so don't trash me and tell me to buy a Honda.....    I'll drive my TJ  Thanks.

[JackstandJohnny]

so don't trash me and tell me to buy a Honda.....    I'll drive my TJ  Thanks.

if you care about MPG you should though

 if you care about not getting stuck on a side road in the winter, or in a parking lot, being able to drive over speed bumps, and love to go topless,and camp places highscool kids with civics can't camp, drive a jeep    the benefits will outweigh the drawbacks if you love the jeep

so chillax, its all good, take personal accounts of what people have done, etc, and make your own conclusions   you'll learn from experience like the rest of us, then you can give valid opinions too. no need to get angry, its an internet forum. 

i'm gonna drive my YJ. with a 4L, it has 4:56s, 35s and a K and N.  i think i got 18L/100km on the way down south.   maybe 17 or 16... i don't care, cause the jeep made it, wheeled, and got home  

[dac]

I gave up figuring out my mileage a long time ago because it's a waste of time.  It doesn't matter.  If you save 2 mpg in your jeep, so what.   It costs you too much to justify it.  The only reason I tried to figure out savings for mods is so it looked better in justifying it to the significant other when spending the money to do it.  Like Bill said, if you want to do it, do it, don't do it to save money because it doesn't work that way.  Not with the TJ's.

As far as the sucker thinking he'll ever get as good as the window sticker say for mileage, forget about it.  Those numbers are based on no load, no mods, no wind, driving less than the speed limit on the perfect test strip.  It's a bullshit number, I've driven my brand new truck at the speed limit and have yet to reach that magical number.  If 2$ a tank is going to break you than sell the damn jeep and get something else.

oh I almost forgot "I know a guy who knows a guy" that has a chev 3/4 ton with a 350 that gets 13 mpg if he's loaded or empty.  Some vehicles are what they are, in the end, who cares.  You buy a vehicle for a purpose, if saving money on gas is what that purpose is than there are certain vehicles that are bad choices.

Oh, and Parabs, if you're worried about mileage maybe you shouldn't have drove 115+ to Sparwood today down 22, probably was closer to 120 judging by how fast you were passing traffic (I was there).

This is what I think of this thread

[parabs]

Nothing to do with a pissing contest and everything to do with the frustration of trying to talk to someone with new grad engineer brain.

People that think they are so smart it makes them stupid.

Of course if you dont load a 2500lb car with a 500hp motor it will get good milage. 500 hp vettes also get 30 some miles to the gallon.

These cars are aerodynamic, take minimal hp to go down the road at 60mph, have computerized transmissions that drop line pressure at cruising speeds, are less then half the weight of a jeep, have variable tuning, are completely rollerized, overhead cams, balanced rotating assemblies.....................................

People have taken high mileage motors and put them into jeeps. They still loose mileage because of weight, drivetrain losses, and aero dynamics.

You cant be serious bringing this stuff into this conversation.

Your freinds tacoma has variable valve timing, and whole slew of other tech behind it that makes it completely irrelevant to this conversation.  Can you even fathom what the effect of variable valve timing is on power and effeciency for any engine?

Do you realize how arcaic that makes a push rod 4 litre?

Did you know that the 4 litre was discontinued because there was NOTHING the manufacturer could to anymore to get that motor to meet epa rags for mileage and emissions?

People have been putting blowers on jeeps for years. The tech is not there to afford any gains.

For you to come in here blathering about mustangs, tacomas, super chargers, and what ever other unrelated bullshit you can think of in an attempt to try and make some point that is not applicable to the 4 litre application what so ever is just annoying.


By the way, the only thing a k&n does on a jeep is dirty the motor up. The stock intake already flows more then the cam and head allow for in stock form.

Electric fans only provide a minor gain when they arent running. Which is almost never on a jeep. Whether you load the alternator or the fan pulley, it makes no difference. Modern clutch fans dont put a lot of drag on the motor until they engage.

All this ricer tech bullshit does not work the same on 4 litres, as it does on other stuff.

Im done here. A guy comes and asks about milage and a bunch of nerds start talking crap about stuff they have no clue about.



You spend the money, you do the work, you get your own god dam answers................

As I said in a previous post, you know tons about jeep, as I didnt say in a previous post, You know significantly more about jeeps than I do...at that being said you seem to have made up your mind based on your experiences and will not entertain any further discussion on it, which is completely fine but it is disappointing for guys like me who are new to the jeeping world.  What is even more disconcerting is the fact you reference numbers without research.  A full weight zo6 corvette (505hp) is in the neighbourhood of 3100lbs, and is an old pushrod roller engine...7.0l of it.  The supercharged 5.4l shelby is a cammer however it is hefty at 3800+ lbs w/o driver.  I had my TJ on scale just outside of Claresholm, 3940lbs with me in it...these cars are clearly not less than 1/2 the weight as you stated, and I dont think an XJ or any other Jeep that came with a factory 4.0l weighs as much as 6200 lbs w/o a driver, but I may be wrong.

Absolutely variable valve timing is a huge development, and it sends engines without it to the stone age.  I do also know the 4.0l couldnt keep up with emissions, which is why it was dropped.

My original statement on page 1 as it relates to forced induction is:

1)qualified as a fairy tale
2)put forth the basis of the theory on this subject
3)no where said it is absolutely certain it work out for a positive gain in fuel economy on a Jeep.

You responded saying people who build a blown engine dont have mileage at the forefront of their build.

2mpg on a vehicle that gets 15 is a 13% increase in mileage.  If you get 20mpg, 2mpg is still a 10% increase...2mpg may not sound like much, but it is pretty decent number

No where did you say you have built, worked on, put thought into, or even know anyone who has tuned for mileage.  Nor did you say what these jeeps were built like, IE 6" lift, 37" tires, etc.  Lifting a vehicle makes it less aerodynamically efficient, and the higher rotating mass larger tires has also has a negative effect.  So, not for the sake of argument, or because I think I am smart (but am actually stupid), I would like you to lay out in detail your personal experience with regards to the builds of each Jeep that suffered a loss in mileage.  It would be great to hear about what doesnt work so some "nerds" like me can take those examples and not make similar mistakes, should we attempt to try "engineer" a build for better mileage.

Oh, and by the way, ricer tech is crap like cam gears, blue signal lights, the lowest profile tires you can get, a chrome 8" can with a 4.5" tip that sounds curious at best, and peculiar adjustable wings.  I didnt think turbos and superchargers and heads/cam/intake swaps were considered ricer, but there I go again, thinking I am sooo smart..

[parabs]

...Oh, and Parabs, if you're worried about mileage maybe you shouldn't have drove 115+ to Sparwood today down 22, probably was closer to 120 judging by how fast you were passing traffic (I was there).
...

 

This morning I did hustle a little bit, it wasnt a great day for mileage.    However there was i very pressing issue I had to deal with today, and sometimes you do what you have to do.

btw, what do you drive, err, did I pass you?  I hope I was a gentleman about it either way...(I dont recall getting the finger anyways)

[dac]

No sorry, you weren't driving bad, just quick.... for a jeep.    I'd usually be traveling a bit quicker down that stretch than I was but I was waiting for someone to catch up.

I had kept track of mileage when my jeep was stock, when I put on 31's, when I added some bolt on stuff like muffler and cai and then when I lifted higher and went to 33's.  The best I ever got was with 31" AT's and the bolt on stuff but it changed from tank to tank and was a little dependant on time of year.  Sometimes I got better than stock, sometimes worse.  As for bolt on mods like the Edge kit, I think they claim 2mpg.  It made a seat of the pants difference and added driveability but there was no visible sign of a gain in fuel savings.  Most definetly not enough to save in gas what I paid for it. 

My apologies for the rant in my previous post, but this topic is getting carried away..... and I was drinkin'  .  From my experience trying to save gas in the jeep hasn't really worked.  Adding what I did to mine has given it more power and makes 33's with 3.73's liveable for now but I still plan on re-gearing.  Sure adding a supercharger might help pull the hills better but I'd bet you wouldn't see any gain in mileage.  You'd definitely not save enough to pay it off.

[apeman]

Best MPG/Per dollar?  Purple Gas...Maybe its a Saskatchewan thing...Lol.

[SwampSinger]

I get 21.5L/100L..... without the grocery.

I like it... and it's better then some of you round lights lovers!


Gosh darn it I will run purple from now on... Where is Sashkequebec again?

[w squared]

Dat's on de way to Rimouski, eh?

[Bnine]

As I said in a previous post, you know tons about jeep, as I didnt say in a previous post, You know significantly more about jeeps than I do...at that being said you seem to have made up your mind based on your experiences and will not entertain any further discussion on it, which is completely fine but it is disappointing for guys like me who are new to the jeeping world.  What is even more disconcerting is the fact you reference numbers without research.  A full weight zo6 corvette (505hp) is in the neighbourhood of 3100lbs, and is an old pushrod roller engine...7.0l of it.  The supercharged 5.4l shelby is a cammer however it is hefty at 3800+ lbs w/o driver.  I had my TJ on scale just outside of Claresholm, 3940lbs with me in it...these cars are clearly not less than 1/2 the weight as you stated, and I dont think an XJ or any other Jeep that came with a factory 4.0l weighs as much as 6200 lbs w/o a driver, but I may be wrong.

Absolutely variable valve timing is a huge development, and it sends engines without it to the stone age.  I do also know the 4.0l couldnt keep up with emissions, which is why it was dropped.

My original statement on page 1 as it relates to forced induction is:

1)qualified as a fairy tale
2)put forth the basis of the theory on this subject
3)no where said it is absolutely certain it work out for a positive gain in fuel economy on a Jeep.

You responded saying people who build a blown engine dont have mileage at the forefront of their build.

2mpg on a vehicle that gets 15 is a 13% increase in mileage.  If you get 20mpg, 2mpg is still a 10% increase...2mpg may not sound like much, but it is pretty decent number

No where did you say you have built, worked on, put thought into, or even know anyone who has tuned for mileage.  Nor did you say what these jeeps were built like, IE 6" lift, 37" tires, etc.  Lifting a vehicle makes it less aerodynamically efficient, and the higher rotating mass larger tires has also has a negative effect.  So, not for the sake of argument, or because I think I am smart (but am actually stupid), I would like you to lay out in detail your personal experience with regards to the builds of each Jeep that suffered a loss in mileage.  It would be great to hear about what doesnt work so some "nerds" like me can take those examples and not make similar mistakes, should we attempt to try "engineer" a build for better mileage.

Oh, and by the way, ricer tech is crap like cam gears, blue signal lights, the lowest profile tires you can get, a chrome 8" can with a 4.5" tip that sounds curious at best, and peculiar adjustable wings.  I didnt think turbos and superchargers and heads/cam/intake swaps were considered ricer, but there I go again, thinking I am sooo smart..

For christ sakes

Shut up already

[SwampSinger]

jpthing.... is that you?

[fug]

I'm gonna get a throttle body spacer.... and a header... and one of them fancy K&N filters and and one of these

It's going to be awesome!