XJ rebuild - the right way

[Dracitamo]

Hey guys. So I bought my jeep in December. Brand new to wheeling so I'm learning fast... and the expensive way that I got ripped off. Had a "friend" check it out and he said it was sick so I bought it. For way too much.

Advertised was a 4.0L I6 97 Cherokee, with a 5" lift, V8 ZJ tie rod, BDS sway bar disco's, front skid plate, some decent diff covers,  and some other crap. Said he had a D30/35 w/ 410's. oh and don't forget the crap bushwacker flares. To sum it all up, I got taken by the guy selling it and my "friend" who was this "offroader" (who has since gotten out of 4x4ing) and ended up buying a pretty mall crawler. With a filthy fuel filter and broken pump that crashed out on me on the drive home from buying it.

Turns out... I have a 2" Shackle with cut out flares. Crappy adjustable tie rod, crappy disco's, and 3.05's. No wonder when I bought it with 35's on it it would rub the fenders.
Now the good thing is, I have 217k on it, a bullet proof engine, a HP D30 in the front, and hardly any rust.

Upgrades planned:
Rusty's 8" Long Travel Kit - with the HD lower axle mounts, adjustable spring spacers, stabilizers, Bilstein 5150 shocks. looking at about $2,589.00. plus taxes, shipping, getting it across the boarder... etc.
or
Iron Rock XJ 8" Critical Path Long Arm Lift Kit with all the fixings
Is there a better suspension kit that anyone could recommend?
I want to upgrade the diffs to a Ford 8.8 in the rear and front either keep the HP D30, or upgrade it to the D60? what do you guys think?
Going to run 4.56's I think was suggested. Was thinking 4.10s. thoughts?  
Tires - New rims and 35" MTZ's.
Lockers - ARB's? Sure they are expensive, but I have never heard anything bad about them.
I need to pull the front bumper forward 3 or 4 inches to fit a winch, and reinforce it back to the steering box.
Rear skid plate - needed.
Under body armor - needed.
Full body interior roll cage - needed.
Lights - XVision HID conversion kit.
Light bar - upgrade the 55W lights to LED's.
On-board Air - still pondering what I'm going to do here. Run off the AC or get a different set up.
Winch - probably going to get a Warren 8000 lbs. Just don't know what one yet.
Alternator - going to get mine tuned up at Amperage technologies I think it was called. Still need to see what they can do for me, but was told they can crank it right up, waterproof it, and all that good stuff.
Battery's - going to get a red top and relay a yellow top for accessory's (lights, CB, winch, onboard air)

I'm hoping to do a lot of the wrenching myself, but I can sure use a hand during the diff swap.

Just thought I'd start a thread so I can get advice and opinions as the build starts up and if you have any suggestions before I go and buy anything please feel free to discuss.

[comanche killer]

have you checked out clayton offroad

http://claytonoffroad.com/index.php/cPath/18_66

I have the 5.5" rustys long arm my only complent is the trans cross member I wish it had a removable center secion so I wouldn't have to drop out the front suspension to get the trans out if I had to do any trans replacment/ trans work

Do as mush reserch as you can and get a lift that best sutes you and your driving style

[Tyn Pow]

Cruise around for lifts kits.....I picked up a Clayton longarm from Northridge for a decent price and I swear by the kit, beef all the way.  If you do, get the 3-link, will be the tits.
For 35's the ol durty turdy will probably hold up, it's a decent little axle for greasy Alberta type wheelin from my limited experience.  Swapping in a 60 is a serious job, as you really have to reinforce the 'framerails' on the old unibody, aside from all the bracketry and clearance issues.  I've been on 35's for a year on my D30 with no failures, only very premature replacement on everything...
4.56 on 35's is a decent ratio....if its a dedicated trail rig I'd go deeper, can't have enough gearing
ARB's are slick, but from what I've heard from different cats is that they can be finicky in colder temps....OX lockers are the ultimate bonerjams but very spendy.  E-Lockers are an option for selectable too.  Then there's a bunch of automatics....I have lunchbox Aussies's front and rear and really like them, and they're simple to install and dirt cheap to boot.
I wouldn't worry about running dual batteries, Optimas nonetheless.  One good battery with a healthy charging system should be all you need.
But then again, you might have one of those elusive money trees in your backyard, in which case you should just throw the wallet at it....aka JEEP

[FiEND]

Never had an issue with the arbs in any temp.  They are problematic though and require you be able to maintain them or its costly.  Ill never put money into arb air lockers again, cheaper and easier to have a crappy daily driver and spool the damn axles ;-)

[BlackYJ]

Never had an issue with the arbs in any temp.  They are problematic though and require you be able to maintain them or its costly.  Ill never put money into arb air lockers again, cheaper and easier to have a crappy daily driver and spool the damn axles ;-)

If ARBs are installed correctly, they will be trouble free.  Just change the gear oil regularly if you are wheelin in lots of water or mud.

[FiEND]

Believe what you want.  There's a few of us on here that dissagree

I find the seals are especially weak during break-in.  The newer seals even more so.

[apeman]

New to wheeling, I would advise against 8 inches of lift and 35's..go with a good 4.5" kit and some 31's or 33's and cutouts which you already have,a rear locker,and learn to wheel
 Jumping up to the biggest lift you can find isn't worth a damn, if your high centre of gravity and lack of ability has you on your roof halfway down the trail.

Just my 2 cents, its your money. But you cant buy experience.

[WhiteOut]

Apeman's idea is sound advice. The vehicle will handle and drive so much differently between the height now and 8". I noticed at difference even going from 4" to 6" and it took a bit for me to get used to it again.

[Immortal]

I noticed at difference even going from 4" to 6" and it took a bit for me to get used to it again.

But really.... how many times do you have to go around a cloverleaf to get used to how your rig behaves on pavement?







 

[Dracitamo]

Awesome! Thanks guys for the advice. I didn't want to be limited by my vehicle, but ending on the roof doesn't sound all that great. Roll cage or not, it would suck.
4.5 lift should be enough to upgrade to 35's down the road shouldn't it? or will I need to upgrade the lift again? Would the 6.5" be a bit too much in your opinion? Reason I wanted to go to 35's or bigger is because there is a run in BC that requires a minimum of 35's to run it. Not many guys out there are able to because they run 33's and I wanted to give it a shot. Again, this is something I can wait to do for a couple years if needed. Moving to 33's sounds like a simple job, but I would need the lockers in any case. If I'm running 33's, I can probably get away with 4.10's. Gonna have to get out and find the 8.8 before I start buying gears. I was talking with Justin today and he told me I shouldn't need to spend as much as I was told to get a lift put in. (Thanks for your patience, I got a lot to learn, but we all gotta start somewhere right?) 

Aussie lockers you say? I'll have to check them out. I have heard talk about them but also heard that E-lockers and ARB's are supposed to be better. If the ARB's are a pain as you say, what's your thoughts on E-lockers?

I have debated selling the XJ and buying a TJ, but then I got to thinking about carrying stuff for camping and all that other good stuff. I'm leaning towards keeping the XJ after all the stuff I have done to it. I would be further behind if I got a TJ and had to start all over. If I can do all the upgrades I want for a lot less then I'm willing to hold onto the XJ.

Lift kit recommendations:
Rough Country
Iron Rock
Rustys
Clayton

Any one else you could recommend?

[apeman]

Go with 4.5" and 33" and lockers....you would get just as far with that combo and some finesse driving. Get used to the way it feels and operates off road....and on. Learn from some of the guys here and don't be in a rush to be bigger than the next guy. If you are worried about the rear d35 carry spare shafts, or go pull the xj d44 at pnp.  Upgrade the weak points in the axles/drivetrain. 6" lifts and 35's don't matter when you arestuck,broken down without a spare shaft,whether it be axle ot driveshaft.

[raf2379]

your mind is alredy set for 35's, even tho your considering 33's, in the back of your mind you still want 35's right? I say get your 35's, bushwaker fender flares. go with a good long arm lift kit that is 3-link or 4-link. save your money and dont buy a short arm or radius arm suspension, unless you really want a radius arm kit.

4.5" or 6.5" lift

you could go with a Clayton 3-link
http://claytonoffroad.com/product_info.php/cPath/18_127/products_id/329

or you could go with a Rock Krawler XJ 6.5 TRIPLE THREAT LONG ARM SYSTEM
http://www.rockkrawler.com/?r_intro=1

go with 4.88 gears. you could do a detroit locker in the rear, either an OX or detroit truetrack, or e-locker in the front or just keep the front open for now. you will need a CV rear driveshaft. upgrade your steering. 4" backspacing on rims will be good. you could build up your axles a bit or just carry some spare parts while wheeling and save up for some built G2axle d44's

going to fulwidth axles such as a d60, takes work, time and money to do it right. an 8.8 in the rear and a 60 in the front is a missmatch, the 8.8 is 59.5" WMS to WMS while the 60 is anywhere from 67" to 69.5" WMS to WMS, there were some 65" front d60's. also the 60 is an 8 bolt lug patter, but can be converter to 5x5.5.

just some ideas. search what others have on their xj's and read some reviews. jeepforum has a good database of xj lifts. in the end its your jeep and you will build it tha way you want all we can do is give some suggestions and you need to do the reaserch before you commit to a kit. I regret buying my first lift kit which was a 3.5" RE short arm kit, I should have went with a long arm from the start. and now the only lift on my jeep is 4 12-ton princess auto jack stands .

[cLAY]

I have Claytons kit on my ZJ with 8" and 36s. Running 5.38s with a spooled rear D60 and elocked front D44 with ram assist steering. I started off with these axles in a 1989 XJ with 8" of lift and short arms.

Can weld good? If not forget doing a custom front axle and stay with bolt on upgrades. Building a front axle in VERY expensive and time consuming.

Really like my elocker, only tore the wires once and it was 10min to fix them. I've seen lots of problems with ARBs leaking seals, tearing lines, lines freezing up in the winter, compressors dieing.

The XJ tow hook brackets can be mounted in two positions, stock and a second position that pushes the bumper out enough to allow mounting of a winch behind the stock bumper. A winch plate would need to be welded to the took hook mount brackets. If building a stock bumper incorporate the steering box holes into the build as the frame will crack around the steering box holes.

If you roll your XJ onto the roof and don't have an exo-cage there is a 90% probability that the body will be toast and you'll be stripping it for parts. If going with big lift tires, wider axles will give a more stable foot print.

Anything much over 6" of lift on an XJ removes it from the daily driver scene and pushes it towards the trailer queen catagory.

REar sway bar is useless, toss it. Keep the front though.

35s need more brakes than the stock D30 can typically provide, something to think about.

My suggestion is to run 33s with as small a lift as possible and trim as required. This still leaves the vehicle as a usable daily driver or 2nd vehicle. This is the goal for my next build, more of an expedition style. I'd run 4.56s unless I got a deal on diffs with 4.10s in them.

You are far better off to be limited by the vehicle and not your skills. Newbies driving rigs with big/lifts and tires are entertaining to watch, they can go through anything, right up till they flip over or blow something big.

[Tyn Pow]

I have debated selling the XJ and buying a TJ

Just do it...building a unibody rig sucks. There's a guy on here building a whole frame for his XJ, cause Jeep forgot to install them.  If I could start over a TJ Rubicon would be the rig.
On the positive side, there's billions of XJ's around.....so used upgrades and PNP parts are very cheaply and readily available

[Dracitamo]

Did a lot of reading on Jeepforum.

Lifts
Found a Rubicon Express RE6200 5.5" XJ Extreme Duty
Had some good comments, and won't need to upgrade as much when I'm ready to go to 35" down the road. Also keeps me under the trailer only category.
Rough Country - Maybe... sounds like it's hit or miss with your kits. It's super cheap though.
Rusty's - out of the question now. Too many cons. I don't wanna do the add-a-leaf either. I would rather replace with something stronger.
Going to go with the long arm after hearing how many people don't like the short arm.

Lockers
Ox-Trax Cable Locker OXD30C373H-27 Selectable locker, beefy, simple. Only con I found was for installing the cable, but if that's the only downside, I'm sold.
Aussie - they are out. I have heard they can pop quite often. The less I have to open my diff, the better. Might be cheap, but repairs are more expensive then a one time buy.
Detroits - don't do so well in snow and ice I was reading. So they are out.

Bumper - I have a front custom bumper already. I'm getting AVNINE to do some adjustments for me. He is going to bring it forward 4 inches and reinforce back to the steering box. This will save me from having to cut the grill where it sits now.

Tires - Going to run 33's MTZ's I have heard are pretty decent out here. This will be my first upgrade as I'm sure I can run them with the lift and cut out that I have now. Might need some bump stops though.

Diffs - Can I run a 8.8 in the rear and keep the HP D30 in the front? Until I'm ready to upgrade the front diff when I switch to the 35's?