Hiring mechanics and mechanically inclined people AKA "pissing and moaning"

[w squared]

Were posts deleted or did he just get banned for defending himself after a condescending remark?

I believe that is the definition of 'admin abuse'.

And I believe that your post defines someone who didn't bother reading the whole thread. Please go back and re-read it.

After that if  you don't like the way that the thread was moderated, then please feel free to spend the time required to make a contribution to the club, become a member, and then you get to vote and have a say in how the board is moderated.

Until then, please feel free to continue using this site without any financial contribution or volunteering your time. While we're open to having all sorts of guests, it's CJA members and the executive that are elected by the members to moderate this board who decide what's appropriate here.

[yellowjeep101]

What's with all this over reaction and post hijacking from both sides, both sides have had great contributions to this club, and both sides have remarks that to the other side can be considered questionable. Either way, mistakes are made and as read before Jeff was banned, he tried to make amends for his comment being taken out of context. I don't know, I guess if you make a comment that pisses one of the great admin off, you get a arbitrary ban, which is unfair. But who am I to say, as a person who has volunteered with the club, and showed up to meeting, yet not a member. I just think being one side tried to make things better, the other side should extend an olive branch out as well, and just drop all of this.

[FiEND]

[yellowjeep101]

My arguement on this was made with respect to both sides.

[Nootch]

I can see the that there are two underlying and competing view with the statement that started this whole mess.  As an apprentice myself i was blessed and very fortunate to start my career in a small shop that was personal and i worked WITH my jman's around the shop as an equal to gain knowledge. I didn't have to "earn my stripes" to get respect from the people i worked with.  I am now finishing up my ticket in a larger unionized shop that has a very different attitude towards apprenticing.  One that you have to put in your time and take your lumps to get anywhere.  A pecking order but polished up and called seniority.

Is one system better than the other, NO.  They both have their good and bad points to them.  My first 6 months in the new shop and experiencing what i was told is how things used to work was a huge wake up call for me. 

My personal stake in this says you can be a Jman and know less that some of the 1st years out there.  The little piece of paper in my wallet is a certification that i went to school, not that i learned anything.  I rate the caliber of a mechanic on how he handles a problem, and how resourceful he is about fixing it. They can and have trained monkey workers to hang parts, and tighten bolts.  Mechanics are the ones who can diagnose, and perceive things beyond a broken part to determine why it broke and how to prevent it from happening again. All while using the resources at hand, especially if your running out of a truck.


In the end shame on both of you.

[thayer03]

How about you go start or finish this pissing match your own thread? Or just close/delete this thread. I don't want my name associated with this kind of thing.
For the record I think gearhead was out of line for his first post in MY thread. Jeff had every right to defend himself. But I too am not a paying member as my schedule does not allow me to be around for meetings and such.

Thank you

[AV.NINE]

I stand behind what I said, not like it matters it'll be deleted by the end of the day. And I haven't disrespected Cja for the 7 years I've been here.

Perhaps fug does lend a hand behind closed doors, I may be wrong. I've never been behind the member door.

Side note: it absolutely astounds me that I have been a "nonmember" here for 7 years, attended maybe 10 meetings, 15-20 trail rides, brought my club to the toy run last year (5 jeeps or so), and have gone to the show and shine quite a few times... Yet maybe 2 of the exec's actually know who I am... I've met you all countless times, am I just that forgettable? I think I need a hug.

[AstraX]

How about you go start or finish this pissing match your own thread? Or just close/delete this thread. I don't want my name associated with this kind of thing.

Thank you

This.

All this other BS needs to go away from this Thread. I'm sure it isn't the kind of attention Randy is looking for.

I don't care for over moderation, but this thread is useless other than being a pissing match. I think maybe everything should be deleted other than Randy's original post.

[fug]

I split this thread so as to not take away from the original post which was perfectly legit post.

A few points

1) The ban was not intended to be permanent.

2) It's my opinion that abusing an admin in an open forum should be an automatic ban.  There are a number of us that moderate this board and we don't deserve to be second guessed or abused in an open forum.  We don't always make the right call and its OK to disagree with us... but please PM the admin in question or another member of the exec... otherwise the board ends up being a free for all and people stop wanting to come here.

Just in case it's not clear... the ban was handed out because when I tried to tell Jeff he was being a tool and he should lay off Gearhead he came back by being abusive to me.   If he had come back furthering his argument in a reasonable tone... I'd have just left it alone. 

If you call a ref names at a hockey game, you get tossed... I dare say, if you tell you boss he's a moron you end up getting fired or at the very least your advancement opportunities become limited.  If you all think I'm giant tool then so be it... you are more than welcome to show up at some meetings get a membership and vote my overbearing, rude, insensitive and incompetent arse out.  In the meantime... I'll try to do what I think is right to keep the club and the boards a pleasant place for people to hang out and I'm more than willing to listen to anyone who has ideas on how to make that happen.

[thayer03]

I can see where you are coming from Fug, Jeff should not have responded to you the way he did.... But regardless Gearhead WAS out of line for his response to Jeff's first post. Period. In my opinion you were out of line for defending it.

[fug]

Fair enough.  I looked at my response and I could have been a bit nicer about the point I was trying to make for sure.  I do apologize for that.   I will certainly admit.... I've known Gearhead for years and I like the guy... so that certainly played into my reaction.

I do kind of agree with the point he was making tho... far to often I get noobs walking through the door  asking what YOU can do for them... and think they know everything and that all the rest of the guys on the team are idiots and they are there to tell them that.   Usually they don't last too long... the guys that really become indispensible are the ones who come in... don't say much... look around get the lay of the land and then show you that they are over and above what you ever expected from them.  Those are the guys that I love having on my team.  I guess I'm showing my age there... when I started my career there were really no jobs to be had and you had to work hard to earn the respect.  I've certainly noticed a shift in attitude in the past 10 years

[WhiteOut]

Pretty fair comments so far.

Now look at it from the other side. How many times do we warn someone to change the way they conduct themselves on the site? 2? 3? 4? Or do we just stop moderating the comments that are left? If we do that, we will wind up with people complaining that so and so was a dick in one of their threads, their thread has been hijacked and derailed, or that their for sale thread is being tarded up by people who have zero intention of buying the things for sale and only want to post smartass comments (I think this is where the majority of our deleted comments come from).

Comparing to the various forums I am on, we probably have the most relaxed approach to moderation. If we followed some of the other sites guidelines, there would be a lot of people on here with no access to the for sale sections and a lot more posts/ threads removed. We are fairly relaxed on letting threads get off topic (to a degree) and the “family friendly” policy of the site has a fair bit of leeway in it (within reason).


Yes, Jeff has contributed to the site, no one is going to argue with you on that point. But at the same time, there have been a few times where he has been asked to modify the way he posts. If I recall correctly, no one has actually received a permanent ban from the site, at least in the 3 or so years I have been here. Like fug said, this is a 2 day or so “time out”, not a permanent removal.

If I'm way off in any of this, please say so.

[Gearhead]

I think it's only fair that I respond .

This is all I 'm gonna ad  

My comment , back  at the beginning was a joke .

Is this an apology  ?  ,  nope    ,   I'm   not   sorry  ,    it was a joke  ,   it's   that simple  ,   a condescending remark ?  ,  hardly  ,   attitude or disrespect ?  nah , sure got some back though ,   the difference is , I can take it .  

Not sure how or why   my humor  was interpreted as an attack  or how this thread has turned into a  hissy fit

Do I want to argue about any of this ?       what for ?

Rubio3   has shown his true colours  , his emotional reaction  has gotten him banned  ,  oh well  .

For the record  :

No apprentice in my care , ever had to clean my tools   , as jeff suggested.
No apprentice  in my care  , was ever forced to do anything  i wouldn't do myself or have not  done myself  , although many  of them  have whined about it , or quit  .
I nearly fell out of my chair  while reading jeff's  claim that he could teach me  a "hundred" things , not gonna happen    ever      .


Why would  I be so cruel and insensitive as to tease or make fun of an apprentice ?  ....................

In my 37 years as a tradesman I've seen and done alot  , what has become apparent is that there are fewer and fewer people in the blue collar  workforce that have the following qualities.

* Good work ethics  
* A marketable level of skill
* Show up for work every day  or on time
* Can take a bit of constructive criticism without breaking down ,  sobbing or  crying
* Can actually repair something  without changing a bunch of perfectly good parts
* Can think outside of the box  , break new ground by pioneering a new technique or procedure
* Can envision an item , a tool , a part  or whatever , in their mind  , then go out on the shop floor and create it , or even  make a legible  drawing of it
* Can display a level of competance without appearing arrogant or  an all knowing  expert that truely knows little about anything  


Too much emphasis these days is placed on " how much will I be payed ?   "  ,    what's in it for me   ,   why should I have to do that ?    

Some day    I'll say what I really feel    

Until then , any of you  oversensitive metros that think anyones rights have been violated can pound sand , now THAT was condescending , not directed at anyone in particular  , just a general comment to all the drama queens that seem to pop up all the time .

I tend to talk to people as I please , respect where due  , dickheads are treated as such.


Robin    I like you too  .

That is all    

[dunl]

People need to remember that comments that are typed out can be quite different from how they were intended to come across. That goes for BOTH sides.

If I'm way off in any of this, please say so.

IMHO....Yup, you are way off,and here's why:

There's no reason (again, IMO) that this should be discussed in the open forums.  No reason at all.  If someone has a beef with someone else, it should be discussed privately.....that includes if you feel someone disrespected you on the open forum - PM them about it.  I'm not talking about debating something....I'm talking about trading cheap shots back and forth.  And if the admin steps in, and you have an issue, discuss it privately.  And if the admin feel the need to explain themselves, then that member gets the explanation....not everyone.

If you need to drop the hammer, then do so, and involve only those who need involving.

I can hardly see anyone here having a discussion like this in the lunch room at work, involving two employees at odds, with the boss/supervisor having to explain to the whole lunchroom why they meted out discipline like they did.  Or further, other employees not involved beaking off at the boss in front of the whole lunch room.


Don't take it personally....It's just my belief that these things can be handled quieter and more effectively that way. 

[w squared]

Aaaaaand are we ready to lock this thing yet? Please?