Please help this clueless n00b (Grand Cherokee 4.0)

[bitofaclue]

Hi, folks - just signed up.

I'm doing my first serious work on this 97 GC 4L auto - an engine swap.  Bought what I hope is a good used motor from a local chap - it's reported to be a low-miles 2000.  Everything's been going pretty smoothly - the new motor is in place and I'm just bolting it up to the transmission.  But I can't get the flex plate and torque converter to mate up (there's too much of a gap between them), and I'm afraid I may have made a mistake.  Hope y'all can confirm one way or the other.

When I bolted the flex plate to the crankshaft, there was also a little ring the bolts go through.  I'm sure when I took it off the old motor the order was bolt-ring-flex_plate-crank, so that's how I assembled it on the new one.  If I messed up that order and it actually should be bolt-flex_plate-ring-crank, looks like I'm pulling it back out to correct the error.

Can someone please sort me out on this?

Thanks much.

Jonathan

p.s. Are there any exploded (i.e. parts) drawings online for these things?

[JackstandJohnny]

see if you can grab the torque converter and pull it towards the flexplate.  i ran into a similar problem once..... didn't know the TC can move on the spline.....

[bitofaclue]

Yeah, I was thinking that too - that it had just gotten pushed into the xmission a little far.  But I can't get in there to get a grab on it and try to pull it out without first pulling the motor out.  I tried reaching into the starter hole in the cover plate with a pry bar and wedging it between the torque converter and bell housing to try to tease it out, but it didn't do any good.  Obviously I wasn't prying on it very hard - no desire to crack the housing.

[binare]

No experience with an auto or a tc just friendly advice for next time. Make a cardboard template of the holes next time and drop your bolts into it, stacked with washers and spacers etc. Then it won't matter how long it sat, you'll always know exactly how everything came apart, shiploads of pics help too.

[yellowjeep101]

Just actually had the same thing on a friends jeep. Take the half inch bolt off the bottom of the flex plate, then shove a large socket so you have room to see and work. Get a longer bolt withe same threads, double check the bolt to make sure. Then grab washers. Thread the bolt, and use the washers as spacers. Work your way around the flex plate, and it will evenly pull the tc towards the flex plate. Use the correct bolts to replace the longer ones. If you need a better description, pm me and ill try to better describe this process

[bitofaclue]

I follow you, and I was thinking exactly the same thing - use longer bolts as pullers to suck the tc forward toward the flex plate.  Those are those little (1/2" is probably right) fine-thread numbers, and I don't think I have any like them, so I figure I'll have to make a trip into the city (I live down toward Turner Valley) to pick some up.  May drop into Big 4 while I'm at it and see if the parts dept. will give me a look at the exploded view to make sure I got the assembly order right as well.

[yellowjeep101]

I'm mistaken sorry, I was talking about the half inch long ones bolts at the bottom of the transmission bell housing. They should be black. More like screws than bolts. Just make sure the bolts you use to sick the tc to the flexplate are not too long. Otherwise your back to square one.

[WagoneerXJ]

I'm having the exact same problem on a friend's 90 XJ. coverter pushed back, and I haven't been able to get it out again. I did try the longer bolt trick, but haven't been able to get any to line up yet . Working by myself too.

[bitofaclue]

Yeah, this is killing me.  I popped into the city, took a look at the exploded view at the parts counter at Big 4, and confirmed that I put things together in the right order.  Tried the pull-with-bolts trick using some 3/4" bolts in place of the 7/16" bolts.  No help - went all the way around and it didn't seem to suck it in at all - the short bolts still won't reach the threads in the tc.

Looks like tonight I'll be pulling the motor a few inches forward and seeing if I can see what the he!! is going on.

[yellowjeep101]

Using the washers to pull it forward is key, and threading all four for even pressure on the tc. I didn't have it on the first try, but even pressure was key to making it work

[4Banger_madness]

is the engine possibly from a manual trans and the crank still has the pilot bearing in it?

[bitofaclue]

is the engine possibly from a manual trans and the crank still has the pilot bearing in it?

I think you just nailed it.  Yes, that's the combination.  I just pulled the engine forward to see what the he11 is going on and could clearly see that the cavity in crank isn't as deep as in my original engine and wasn't allowing the tc to seat in.  I'll bet that bearing is still in there and I didn't notice when I transplanted the flex plate over.

(a little later)

Yup, that's exactly what it is.  Me=knucklehead.  So now that I've wedged it in there good and solid, what's the best way of extracting the bearing?

[yellowjeep101]

I hate to say it, but get a friend over and remove the tcase and tranny. Then get a extractor, or look online for other ways. But the extractor is easiest

[bitofaclue]

Well, seeing as how this is about a motor swap, and I hadn't yet connected up anything to the motor, it's the motor (rather than the tranny) that's coming back out far enough for me to get a puller in.  Hard to find item, though.  Down in the south end, neither CanTire or Auto Value have any for rent/loan or sale.  But Princess does, so that's where I'm headed first thing AM.

Just hoping that I didn't screw up my torque converter, though, with the messing around with the longer bolts.  The factory manual cautions against using longer bolts for attaching the flex plate lest the clutch (inside the tc) be damaged.

[Greg-100]

Cheap and effective way to remove the bearing, pack the bearing with grease, take a wooden dowel rod that fits in the bearing, may have to sand the dowel to fit snug, snug is the key word, then take a mallet and tap the dowel into the center of the bearing. May have to repack with grease a couple of times.

The pressure of the grease pops the bearing out, I have done this once.

Greg

(if you want knucklehead reading see my post with the 2.5 timing issues)