Please shed some light and show me the way ;)

[Sardaukar]

Hello all, my first big post, so please be gentle.

At the moment I have a stock 95GC and I am looking to upgrade to a 98GC very soon. I need some help, opinions and suggestions. I am not a serious off roader, maybe a few times per year, and I try to do almost no deep mudding. As well this is my primary vehicle which I use in the city and to go skiing and on road trips, so please keep this in mind. So here are some of the topics I need help with and some clarification.


Lifting

From what I can tell so far, as long as you keep the lift kit under 4” you do not need major drive train modifications. As you go up, the stability decreases so does the comfort of the ride. So what should I get? 2” just is some spacers, 2”- 4” lift needs much more, shocks and so on. So do you have any recommendations for someone who is a very casual off roader and who still needs his Jeep to be day to day.


Differentials

I think I would like a locking one for the back, something electronic that I could control. How does having one effect ice/winter driving conditions? I was looking at the ARB Airlocker, Ox Locker and Elocker, but I'm not sure which to get, or what I'm even locking for/at. What kind of changes would I see going from a limited slip to a open/closed differential, especially if I do the front and back. Any help here would be great.

Tires

I am thinking of keeping fairly stock tires, 215/70 or 225/70. Since I don't do mudding I'm thinking I don't need big tires.

Recovery Gear

The Jeep is about 4000lb (1800kg), so I'm not sure how much pull I realistically need. I have looked at three options so far

Regular Winch: Not sure what to look at.

Heavy Duty Ratchet hoist from Princess auto: It is rated to a pull weight of 8,000lb and a lift weight of 4,000lb (page 62 of the catalog). This seems very reasonable for light recovery.

The Black Rat Winch:

http://www.extremeoutback.com/index.cgi?cart_id=3107910.472&pid=48
http://www.extremeoutback.com/index.cgi?cart_id=3107910.472&pid=49

One is rated for 1750lb dead lift capacity and can be tripled to 5250lb, other is 3500lb and can be tripled to 10500lb. This option seems a nice option since it doesn't require me to have a heavy winch permanently mounted on the Jeep.

Bumpers

I want... no need some nice bumpers, heh. One thing I was thinking have a 2” receiver on the front and back, to allow me to use a “mobile” winch. The plan is, since all of my getting stuck adventures have been nose first, having a winch on the front is not all that useful. So having one I could move to the front or back and remove it easily when not is use seems ideal for my life style.

http://www.kenmtnac.com/WiZJ.html
http://www.kenmtnac.com/MCZJ.html

They seem to do custom bumpers, and he says they can do a front receiver hitch, as well, the price seems very good. Has anyone had any experience with them? I searched a few forums, but not much was mentioned. Or any other recommendations?


Anyways, here is my first post of questions... I'm sure I will have more... thanks!!!

[kevman]

When it comes to suspension/steering the best modification I've made to my ZJ to this point is a steering brace from kevinsjeepparts.com.

As for a bumper I've heard bad things about the kenesee (or however it's spelt) bumpers.  Personally I don't like them, or the ARB's, or the Trail Ready's, etc.  If you don't plan on going very high with your lift (like myself) all of those bumpers take a good chunk of approach angle away.  I plan on having a custom one done up that replaces the factory cross member.  That way I can slam a winch right up against the radiator and save my factory approach angle.

I've got some pictures of my idea that I'll post tomorrow, when I don't have to get up for work in 5 hours...the things we do to play hockey :roll:

[BlackYJ]

The lifted coil springs these days will not decrease comfort of the ride.

As for diffs, if you are new to offroad and never ran lockers before, they can get you into A LOT of trouble, especially front and rear.  I have front and rear ARBs and love them.  My jeep is a daily driver and on the road, you do not notice them at all.  Some of the selectable are LS instead of open when off, so those are nice.  But if you are fairly new to offroading I would recommend wheelin' a while first before jumping to lockers.

For tires, this is Alberta and there tends to be mud.  I would recommend at least 31" mud tires or a good AT

For recovery gear, a winch should be rated for at least double the vehicle weight, so for jeeps 8000-9500 lbs are good.  The warn m8000 is a good strong winch and it is small.  For tow straps, I would recommend 20,000-30,000 lbs strap 30' long.  20' straps are okay but I prefer the 30', AND OF COURSE LOOPED ENDS, NOT ONE WITH METAL HOOKS.

[gsxtacy]

everything sounds like you've got it planned nice...  if you're working on a daily driver, but don't care how bad it looks, borrow a pair of airshears and cut the fenders until you can fit larger tires    

there's a 10k # winch for sale @ costco for $400, the reviews say it's kinda slow to spool, but it's a good starter, ity also mounts universally, which means to a reciever setup as well...

like blackyj said, there's always mud whenever you go out wheeling.   you will need some mtrs or a really good all-errain.   no street tires ever work well off road.  they just end up getting gummed up in the gumbo that is most of the truck trails in the back country, especially during rainy season and winter.

tires are what also gives you clearance under your pumpkins.   consider going with bigger tires so you don't get hung up as easily on the "nose down" situations.

welcome to the world of 4x4!  

[Sardaukar]

The lifted coil springs these days will not decrease comfort of the ride.

As for diffs, if you are new to offroad and never ran lockers before, they can get you into A LOT of trouble, especially front and rear.  I have front and rear ARBs and love them.

Which ones do you have?

My jeep is a daily driver and on the road, you do not notice them at all.  Some of the selectable are LS instead of open when off, so those are nice.  

What is the advantage of having limited slip vs. open?

But if you are fairly new to offroading I would recommend wheelin' a while first before jumping to lockers.

The main reason I want them is because in the last year I could have used lockers four times :oops: and not even doing anything too crazy.

For tires, this is Alberta and there tends to be mud.  I would recommend at least 31" mud tires or a good AT

Point made.

For recovery gear, a winch should be rated for at least double the vehicle weight, so for jeeps 8000-9500 lbs are good.

Fair enough, but does this 8000-9500 lbs including doubling or is this direct?

[Sardaukar]

When it comes to suspension/steering the best modification I've made to my ZJ to this point is a steering brace from kevinsjeepparts.com.

Why would I want this? What does it exactly do?

As for a bumper I've heard bad things about the kenesee (or however it's spelt) bumpers.  Personally I don't like them, or the ARB's, or the Trail Ready's, etc.

I kinda like the look of  kenmtnac bumpers, and his rear one is very compact. I searched some different forums and didn't see any negtive feed back, can you link to some? I'll do another look as well.

I plan on having a custom one done up that replaces the factory cross member.  That way I can slam a winch right up against the radiator and save my factory approach angle.

Where you getting it done?

I've got some pictures of my idea that I'll post tomorrow, when I don't have to get up for work in 5 hours...the things we do to play hockey :roll:

Can't wait to see.

[BlackYJ]

For a winch 8000-9500 lbs single line pull.  I have been in situations where guys have had to double line their 9000 lbs winches.

[BlackYJ]

ARBs are open and locked and are air actuated.  While I am on the street, my ARBs act just like a regular open diff, so there are no adverse affects.  The Detroit Electrac was a LS and locked, but I am not too sure if they are any other ones.  Maybe Auburn has one.  

The advantage of LS vs. open diff and kind of like having a locker vs open diff, except LS do not fully lock up.  On loose gravel roads and winter conditions they work very well.  They also help a lot offroad over an open diff.

Just because you could have used them a couple last year, I personal would not jump right into them, if you don't have much experience.  I run my YJ open for about 4 years before I got my lockers.  I got my rear first and then my front the next year, but once I got my front, I had to watch myself, because I got myself into some pretty HAIRY situations.  This is why I believe new drivers should wheel without lockers for a little while first.  You become a better driver because you learn to pick lines better.  Plus these times you could have used them, would have bigger more aggresive tires helped?

MTRs are a very good around tire.  I DO NOT like them in mud, but everyone has their opinion.  Great in rock, loose stuff, and winter.  Plus they wear pretty good.

[SwampSinger]

ARBs are open and locked and are air actuated.  The Detroit Electrac was a LS and locked, but I am not too sure if they are any other ones.  Maybe Auburn has one.

The Electrac is junk... I now a few guys that run (or runned) it and they like it "when it works".

There is also the OX locker. Its locks mechanically (with a cable). Rackman has one... He used to run a Detroit Electrac before it died on him on the trail. It might be because of our extreme Canadian weather.

I run a Detroit locker (always locked when there is power to it) on my rear axle and a Detroit Truetrac Limited slip in the front on my XJ. This system is low maintemance and bullet proof. I love it! It not the best system to drive on the street... but... I still use my truck as a daily driver & it does not bother me.

[Sardaukar]

Maybe I should have asked this first... a stock GC, is it open or limited slip? I have always thought they were limited slip, not sure why though.

[BlackYJ]

It will probably be a limited slip Traclok.  This is a clutch type limited slip and they do where out over time.

[yjcanibul]

there are a couple if ways to tell whats in the rear axle for traction device,  open it up or easier:  put it on jack stands - with it secured take it out of gear and e-brake off, rotate the rear tires ... if its ltd slip they will rotate same direction, if its open they will turn opposite directions ... thats how my (now departed) trac-lok behaved ...

btw:  there was an awesome GC that use to travel the same route as me into downtown from the n.w. ,  they ran 33's BFG all terrains and nice clean undercarragie with not much that looked like it would snag , the whole D44 rear axle was visiable underneath ... maybe they visit this forum ... nice example of a built unit .....

also - I might not be good one to give advice on traction devices for your fullsize, in my YJ (short wheelbase) which is a daily driver even a ltdslip in front (powerlok) was not good on ice in winter for me ... gave me a twitchy feeling ... arb's front and rear now ... if you do anything make it selectable (front or rear ) else put it away in the winter ....

[BlackYJ]

Honestly, I would look at getting better tires first, because even with lockers, if you can't get traction you are still hooped, and I have had a couple times where I have heard all 4 tires spinning.

[kevman]

Questions....

The steering brace does just that, it braces the steering box.  It's a simple piece of steel with a clamp for the lower end of your steering box.  It goes from frame rail to frame rail to hold the steering box in place and ensure it doesn't move.  Instead of having the box lever off the frame rails it's supported at the point of highest stress.  You know the law, every reaction has an equal and opposite reaction.  So when you turn the wheels the force applied to the wheels is equal to that applied back on the steering box.  It didn't eliminate my "dead spot" because that has more to do with worn TRE's and possibly worn steering box but it sure "tightened" my steering up.  In corner's it's no longer vague and has a very precise feel to it.  If i got under my rig while someone dry steered my tires back and forth I could feel the steering box move befor I put the brace on.  I also no longer need to worry about ripping off steering box tabs.
http://kevinsjeepparts.com/zj/zj_steeringgearbrace.html

As for my bumper plans, check out this thread.
http://www.calgaryjeep.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11274
It shows my plans, an example on a different vehicle, and just how much approach angle you can save.  Those winch bumpers for ZJ's stick out an etnire foot more than the stock one.  If you're on 35's with a 7" LA lift it's not a big deal but if you're like me and what to keep it low that kills approach angle.

[95jeepyj]

stay away from the ox locker i blew up 2 this summer the first one lasted 2 weeks the second lasted 2 months i would not put another one in
i had the super 35 with 30 spline axles bigger bearing etc the center pin keep breaking and coming out the first one hit the pinion at 60 mph  the second one hit the diff cover and cracked it and drained the oil on the hiway