H1N1 Pandemic

[EVOLUTION]

As an interesting note... me and my wife received a letter from Alberta Health yesterday, asking if we would be interested in participating in a long-term study with our 1 year old son and the H1N1 vaccination........ I think we will pass, I don't like the idea of giving my kids something and see what happens down the road.

I think I had that letter too!   

[Evil-Jeep]

I will check for it when I get home... can scan it and send to you if it didn't go into the recycling.

[Evil-Jeep]

too funny, I just finished the last post and was flicking thru some XM talk radio and heard this comment:

"the only difference between the Nazi's and our current governments is that we are still looking for volunteers to do our testing on. Lets hope the uninformed public continus to provide the bodies for their medical testing"


A little harsh, but maybe not completely untrue in this case.

[dunl]

And again.....just because we need a laugh:

[EVOLUTION]

Ok I got a scanned copy of the letter, but it wasn't for the H1N1, it was for the MMR shots etc. (measles mumps rubella)  I wonder why they need to do a study on the effects of these shots now, unless they have changed the formulas?  Anyhow, Tom... I'll send you a copy of the letter to your email.

[01sahara]

I think getting the shots or having the shots for your children is an individual choice. However, this thread seems to be waited on the negative side. I think some opposing view points need to be put forward for consideration .

I trust the many health experts with our federal government and belive that they did not make the decision lightly in offering this vaccine for distribution. A lot of individuals with very advanced skills and knowledge made this decision and I do not believe in conspiracies.  I also trust the family doctor I consulted who recommended the shots for my kids.

 There are risks with anything and it comes down to probabilities. What are the risks from the vaccine vs. the risk from the flue? Yes, I acknowledge there are risk form any vaccine but I feel they are minimal and not life threatening. Risk from this flue in our home I felt was substantial.  Two of my three children I would consider high risk, one has a history of respiratory problems the second, due to other medication, has very low body fat. I felt both were at high risk if they had to fight a severe case of H1N1. The question came down to facing the risk of the vaccine vs. facing the risk of losing a child to this virus. Yes, peoples children are dying from it! Not all and not most but some and as a parent you do think about what if one of my kids is the one of those cases. Based on that information I decided to stand in line for 5 hrs the first day of the inoculations and had all three kids and myself vaccinated. A very well spent 5 hrs.  No the line up was not fun with three kids but we made the best of it. The vaccine takes a long time to give maximum immunity but it does build with time. The sooner you get it the sooner you start to build immunity.  I now feel that I have done everything in my power to protect my children from something that could be life threatening. The 5 hours spent has given me a lot of peace of mind of less worrying about this flue.

Make your own choices but consider the possibilities of not having the shot and if you get this flue who’s child, parent or loved one you may expose to it  and how well will they fight it off.

Just my 2 cents worth.

http://www.montrealgazette.com/health/Evan+death+puts+human+face+H1N1/2174408/story.html

[Spinalguy]

Blair,
What is in this thread is well resourced, researched and scientifically validated info. i have provided no fluff or emotional stuff.
Have you read what is offered on my site?

It is a choice but because a newspaper or government website tells you to do it, that makes it a valid demand? Let me put it to you differently Blair.
1/do you 100% trust the government at the City, Provincial and Federal levels?
2/ same question but now enetr Health directives from the same government in question 1/ ?

If you take the time to read the info Blair, you will see a glaring documented lie. Go to the Calgary Sun's editorial on Nov 2, 2009.
http://www.calgarysun.com/comment/editorial/2009/11/02/11601801-sun.html In that article, it states,
"David Butler-Jones, Canada's Chief Public Health Officer, notes the risk of experiencing severe side effects after receiving the shot is one in a million. "

Now go to Health Canada's site to see what they put that number at 1 in 100,000. Tell me how long and far you need to search to get that data.

Now on the same site is the product insert.http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/dhp-mps/prodpharma/legislation/interimorders-arretesurgence/prodinfo-vaccin-eng.php#info

Go to the section regarding Consumer info. Tell me what # the MAKER of the vaccine puts the risk at?
hint...1 in TEN THOUSAND.

Do you see a disconnect?

Blair, read my site material. It is only biased towards supplying you with what the media and government is not supplying you with. At least read the entire product insert. After all, that is what they are putting in you.
i also would read the mom and child stuff off my site.

At the end of the day, its about gathering info to make the best decision. Think about all your jeep modifications. Did you buy the types of mods based on a manufacturers website TELLING you it is the best lift kit? or did you do some research?  

Thanks.
Make an informed decision.
And to anyone that is sick, i hope you recover soon.


edit:
Blair, it can never be an easy life making choices for your own kids. Especially if they have underlying problems. You do the best you can and hope it turns out well.

[GiS]

I just read about a girl in the US who ended up with Dynomia or something as a result of the vaccine...Neurological damage, troubles speaking and walking now..

Granted we see these "bad news scenarios" more and more, but also keep in mind the number of trouble free vaccines that occur each day?

I don't care, not getting the shot, don't have a kid...Not concerned myself, but those of you with kids, this is a VERY tough descision to make

[w squared]

I grew up close to Ottawa. Some of my friends had parents with careers in the federal civil service, and I also served in the reserves with men who had "civilian" jobs as federal civil servants.

I saw the level of careerism, CYA, and "make yourself look good by making those next to you look bad" that occurs throughout the civil service. While I may abide by the policies handed down, and agree with (and follow) some of the government's advice, I have NO faith in government agencies.

If you choose to immunize your family, that is your choice. But be aware that the distribution of the vaccine is not driven by medical science...it is driven by popular demand. Politicians NEED to keep their electorate happy, because a politician's goal in life is to get re-elected and continue riding the gravy train. When you combine this with an electorate that has been whipped into a fearful state by a media that is driven by financial self-interest, you get politicians that feel a pathological need to be seen to do something...such as cause a vaccine to be distributed.

The fact that their masters are elected means that the bureaucrats that make up health canada understand that they need to respond to the moods of the electorate - sometimes without elected "whip hand" ever having to move.

I'm not going to spin a yarn about the vaccine being some sort of zionist Obama-driven socialist conspiracy to implant microchips and implement mind control. That sort of paranoia is more amusing than anything else. My opinions are based on what I have seen and what I have learned...not what I've read on the interwebs.

Do the research and make your own decision...but do not blindly follow the herd, assuming that "the powers that be" know best. If you do that, you may end up in the same boat as the thousands of other people that have been betrayed by western health care systems. Thalidomide, anyone?

[Evil-Jeep]

I agree it does come down to a personal decision, however, I believe that the government has done every thing it can (intentionally or un-intentionally) to confuse and mislead the public about the vaccine.

They panicked everyone into thinking they needed it now, but when they couldn't deliver it now, it became fine to wait 3 months.
They shut down clinics do to concerns over shortages and shipped excess vaccines out of the country.
They complain that there is to much misleading information and myths about the vaccine, but they have yet to provide a consistent message, or even the same information that the company manufacturing the vaccine provides.

At the end of the day there are two facts that you can guarantee; a) the government won't do or say anything unless it makes them popular at that moment in time, all mistakes and crew-ups can either be spun or it becomes the next governments problem to clean-up, and b) there is a substantial amount of money to be made and those people making the money will do everything they can to protect thier interests.

I do not believe there is any more significant risk to my health than there would be from any other vaccine, however, I do not believe that as a healthy person I am any greater risk of dying from not getting the vaccine than if I did. My biggest concern is that if by some tiny  chance that the decision to rush the vaccine to market caused a serious mistake that put my health at risk, I do not believe that I could trust the government to stop blaming each other long enough to help those who have been harmed by their actions.

[Toyman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3XlJB7J5-o&feature=related

Please watch and learn what 1 MD is speaking out about in the US to the NYS assembly, this is part 1, there are 3, follow the links.  Please listen to those that do their research, like Spinalguy, good job Dr. Tom.  QUESTION, RESEARCH what you are told, do not take what your are told to be the truth at anytime, period. 

[TJ54]

the more I hear, the more I read, the more I discuss this with friends, the more I get confused.
no testing on H1N1 vaccine, but vaccines have been made the same way for many years, with a dead virus in a solution.
hear stories of reactions to virus, hear stories of deaths due to H1N1.
heard about high level cdc members getting themselves and their families vaccinated whereas they usually don't bother.
heard rumors of deaths being under reported and blamed on other under lying complications, heard exactly the opposite
heard of pregnant women losing thier babies, because the virus will attack the weakest part of a person's body,

read Tom's info, I definatly have a lot of respect for his opinion.

if my daughter contracts H1N1, and dies, how will I live with myself having let her pass on the vaccine,
If I make her get innoculated and she has a reaction how will I live with myself.

Am I getting caught up in all the hype and over reacting?  ( probably, )

Next pandemic will I just assume the media is just crying wolf again.

The gov't and media can't win of course. If they did nothing, then the virus became widespread then mutated and people started dropping dead in vast numbers they would be accused if doing nothing.

still undecided,
but I am starting to eat better, and trying to improve my immune sytem, trying to not get run down.And then maybe I won't get sick this season.
I was in calgary yesterday, there seemed to be alot of people hacking and coughing, or am I just being overly sensitive to it all

[barmanjay]

.... then they will get rich from the lawsuit against the manufacturer and gov't.....

I do believe for each participating government/country, a bill was passed of "no fault" kind-of-thing for the vaccine makers/big pharm companies.

can't sue if your fam dies from the vaccine.


 more food for thought




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtFsy0rQsak&feature=player_embedded


fyi: thimerasol is 49% ethyl-mercury, which the FDA deems the same risk factor as methyl-mercury



big pharm/media conspiracy?

why hasn't this made big tv news over here? this happened in Feb? pretty freakin serious stuff - creating genocide in a vaccine

cliff notes:

common flu - most contagious
bird flu - most deadly - 60% kill rate

http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2009/02/27/8560781.html
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aTo3LbhcA75I
http://www.prisonplanet.com/accidental-contamination-of-vaccine-with-live-avian-flu-virus-virtually-impossible.html
http://joerobertson.com/liberty/avian-swine-flu-created-in-lab-who-benefits

interesting video - very long




all just food for thought

[Spinalguy]

Ian,
i agree. It is tough. Yesterdays headline blares out "5 more Dead". But when you go to the story, one sentence, yes, just one
reads, 'all 5 had underlying complications'.

i hate the media. They have made this a frenzy. Their reporting is not even professional.

Examples:
Reported that vaccine is effective in 10d.  Product insert states 21d.
Reported that a dead vaccine is a dead vaccine...low risk.  Truth is the OTHER ingredients of any vaccine that makes it so different.

Editorial on Nov 2nd in the Sun http://www.calgarysun.com/comment/editorial/2009/11/02/11601801-sun.html
states this,
David Butler-Jones, Canada's Chief Public Health Officer, notes the risk of experiencing severe side effects after receiving the shot is one in a million.
Now go to Health Canada and find out ...what the ACTUAL product insert states that the rarest reaction may occur 1 in 10,000 doses.

You have to scroll to the bottom of the drug insert to find it...http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/dhp-mps/prodpharma/legislation/interimorders-arretesurgence/prodinfo-vaccin-eng.php#info


This is a HUGE disconnect for the TOP DOC in the country to be stating 1 in a million on a drug that sits on the health canada site that says otherwise   (1 in ten thousand.)

[JackstandJohnny]

Ian,
i agree. It is tough. Yesterdays headline blares out "5 more Dead". But when you go to the story, one sentence, yes, just one
reads, 'all 5 had underlying complications'.

i hate the media. They have made this a frenzy. Their reporting is not even professional.

i;ve hear a lot of 'dying from complications of H1N1'
what does that mean? is it like 'dying form complications of a car accident'?  WTF?

i love reading all the info etc. and listening to the arguments; its enjoyable.

here's what i know. i got it last week;
i took almost a week of work off.
i went to PNP, i worked on my jeep. 
i slept alot.

in the end..... i was sick, and all i needed was some rest. not a flu shot.
maybe my immune system is kickass from something, but i was out in the cold, wrenching, and carrying on (minus work cause of the scare)
to put it in perspective, i've been at work sicker before. but paranoia sent me to pnp...............

a feel for anyone with a youngin though;  tough calls to make.