Any new projects!? Lets get something going for July 24th / 25th!

[Hi Lo Silver]

I may not respond. I've run out of patience. (JK)

[Spinalguy]

you have to go back, i just answered...

[Hi Lo Silver]

Gun, singletrack is easier and harder to maintain. We have to bridge EVERY water crossing no matter how small. Getting material there is a huge effort. As for traffic, every old timer that rode Maclean 3+ years ago will tell you its absolutely BOMBED from so MANY frickin riders. Before, we never had to put the trails on the map. 80% were unknown, now with the map, everyone can find the less traveled trails. It sucks
i ride elsewhere as often as i can.


Single track bridge....what's that...a log with a flat spot cut on top then pinned down to avoid rolling or not pinned to create an obstacle..
The last part of your post is exactly why I have always been and always will be reluctant to provide ASRD with a map of the trails we do. Nothing like setting ourselves up for future closures.

[Spinalguy]

i agree about sharing trails but the 4x4 ones are on the map and need to be signed. There is also one trail i know should be a 4x4 trail but Quads argued it was not 4x4 doable (BS!). i think if that trail were made 4x4 sustainable (with very little effort  i might add) we could reclaim it for us.

Fish East is a lost cause. It will never be sustainable. i rode down it for the first time in 3 years and i could not believe it. i never imagined it would be trail feathered as much as it is in so many places. i see no way of keeping that one alive...

Here is a recent one we did.
We had to carry/ride in the planks, generator, impact gun, screws (lagbolts), 12V car battery, winch and 6 chainsaws.

[Rich99]

Holy *, what a controversy. This thread sounds like something put out by Corporate Ethics International.  

Guys, I offered to organize this "run" as a result of Diamond Dave indicating that some of the fence we put up in our last "official" project had been knocked down. In that project Kevin, Pook, Kyle, Dave, and myself worked on adding some fence and a new culvert near the pond. We also did a bit of drainage on one of the big sink holes that was getting out of hand along that trail. All good and well planned "sanctioned" work however there are some minor repairs that need to be done there as follow-up.  Some fence mending (a few staples and strings of barbed wire) and a few holes to be drained where there is either no bypass or the bypass is being carved into tender ground. Combine this little bit of effort with a good trail run and it sounds like a good day to me. I think that's why so many people were enthused.

If you go back and read my original post you can see that no one was planning to do this without the proper sanctioning. Next Wednesday we were to look for the blessing of the members/exec or we would simply do nothing - no big deal to me or anyone else I am sure. We can always wait until any red tape is dealt with and until the execs have time to focus on it.  Further we asked for someone who had led before to take it on as an official run so we could cover the trails and have a great day to boot. If we don't get that, again nothing "official".

BTW, thanks to the execs who have been busy almost every weekend doing projects, events, leading member and open runs, organizing camping, show and shines and a tonne of other things all year long. Honestly they must seem overwhelmed with everything they are already doing and I have no idea how they can commit the time to do any more.  They must have great spouses to get away with it. When I became a member I took that it meant throwing in a hand and doing something. I figured that organizing this would count and despite the negative comments about people trying to earn "brownie points" - I expect good people will see it for what it is. Everyone who offered their time should be commended.

Anyway, Blair if you can do what you can with the ASRD - I would appreciate it. We don't need much except some barbed wire and staples.  I can go pick it up anytime or we can get our own if it is easier.  The 24th and 25th is a weekend where there is nothing else planned on the agenda for the club and I think it would be a good time to follow-up on this work - hence the short time-line.

This is not major work in any way and, in fact, it is a real good excuse to get out that weekend.

Do we have anyone that will step up to lead a run that weekend? If not then it is a mute point and we can put this on the agenda for future work to do.
 

[morerpmfred]

Thia is awesome , some new blood getting involved in the fourwheeling scene and doing everything the right way trying to get things done
When some one tries to break into my house at three in the morning I do not ask my wife for permission.  I go into action mode.
 The same thing can be said here , Inform the power to be on what you are planning to do collectively as a group or as individuals and change plans slightly to satisfy the political wind at the moment and just do it. No fan fair required . We are men here .

[TL-Iguana]

Wow... I never realized this was going to be such a hot topic  

I have read, and re-read every post in here and I have to say that I am very grateful for everyones input. I would still love to see a run happen on the weekend, and will pitch in however I can, but honestly I feel more strongly now towards not draining the sinkholes... There is too much risk for greater environmental impact, as I have learned in a lot of reading today. I will still be there if there is a run to help mend the fence, and I will still commit to bringing my staples and hammer, and the back of my XJ would be fine to haul barbed wire in, but I don't feel comfortable with draining the sinkholes only to find that we have made a negative impact over a positive one. There was a very valid point made, that none of us (that I know of or have stepped up and said they) are bio-engineers, and that is really a project that should be thought out with more discussion, involving more than just us as forum members. We definitely have commitment in people here to help out, and later down the road, when the time is right, and the infrastructure is put in place, to see that this is done correctly, it will be a very good project indeed. So, sinkholes aside, I think this could be a very productive day with even just patching up the fence where it needs. This way we can all still band together as a group to do what will help everyone out, and not tread on any ones toes. I want to apologize to anyone I may have offended, and I hope we still can come up with a plan for that Sunday. I am a true believer in the ethics set out by the club, and in treading lightly, and in thinking about this today, by draining those holes without the proper research being done beforehand to ensure that we aren't affecting another ecosystem downstream of that drain, we are not treading lightly at all. It potentially could cause more damage to the trail system if that hole ever re flooded, and eroded the cut away. Then we are right back where none of us want to be!


I would like to  comment on Rich99's post,

If you go back and read my original post you can see that no one was planning to do this without the proper sanctioning. Next Wednesday we were to look for the blessing of the members/exec or we would simply do nothing - no big deal to me or anyone else I am sure. We can always wait until any red tape is dealt with and until the execs have time to focus on it.

as this is exactly what we had collectively talked about as members, and fellow jeep enthusiasts at the last informal Sunday meet and greet. I don't think any of us ever imagined this post would end up to be as long as it is! Rich is exactly right in what he said, and I sure didn't get the impression either that any of us wanted to go with out the good word from the actual members and exec. If its decided that this is not a good weekend for a project of any sort, then I am happy to volunteer for the next one.

I guess to sum up what Ive said, I would love to be there 100%, but if we are going to head out with the intention of draining any holes, then I'm sorry, but I will be holding off on helping with that until the proper planning has been done. The staples, I will still commit to if needed. Hope to see most of you tomorrow at the show and shine!

[apeman]

I apoligise if i ruffled any feathers, and i should have been more constructive in my responses..negativity doesnt benefit the situation. Its great that the trail issues are being addressed and new faces are willing to put in the time and creativity to make the trails better, for everyone. Should more project come up in the future,i will be there, with more of an open minded and optimistic attitude. Should the CJA organizers need help with planning,etc, let me know...i have the time, and the ambition lol.

And i do like kitties 

Thanks Gun, Johnny and Eric...

[JackstandJohnny]

gunther.

i've never met you, and your reputation precedes you; therefore, i've no negative comments to make.

15 years ago, i was in grade school.  so no, i wasn't on the scene...........

i am now.  i grew up in IG;  wheelin at 16: i can't quit it. i've tried.

i will do what i can to keep things open in our province........ i will learn as i go.    any help/info i can gather is greatly appreciated.

remember, at one point, you were in my position:  did you learn from those with experience or argue?  i'd rather learn.   


we have a strong committment of people WILLING to make (or at least help) bring about change to ensure the Waiparous/IG atrocities do not happen in mclean.   

so help us out...............................  i understand the bitterness.  i saw our buddy Morton fly overhead; actually, i was atop a trail and he was almost eye level with my jeep.   and what happened next, well, ask anyone who knows me, it boils my blood.


in short:  Mclean does not need to suffer the same fate.  either help us 'youngings' or back off...............

[Hi Lo Silver]

JohnnyC, help can come in so many different ways. 
I have always said that I would be right back into projects if ASRD would give back a minimum of 5 trails to start with simply for a show of good faith towards the 4x4 community. I told each and everyone of higher standing ASRD personal in the Calgary area to their face what my position was on that and in the five (now more) years of the implementaion of Ghost we have seen nothing added anywhere in Alberta to show they may be willing to go somewhere with building a sustainable trail system or for that matter a more trusted relationship between us as a 4x4 community and them.

Unfortunately , as ugly as it may be on my part right now the only help I can offer the young enthusiastic up coming wheelers is to remind them to  be very leary of the relationship they may think they have with ASRD.  For many years prior to all this coming down we thought we had a good work relationship as well, but it still led to them singling us out for public image purposes. Unfortunately they removed the only means of transportation that can accomadate an entire family for a days worth of experience.

There is certain things on forum boards that get me stirred up, and when I read them I feel the need to respond. Sometimes the help comes from the trail issues constantly being brought up so the young upcoming wheelers know what may be in store for them down the road and what has been done in the past to no avail. ASRD continues to take areas away, they have never yet added anything to our interests and likely never will.  So as you put it....help or back off...well in that ugly way, I think I'm helping, as sarcastic as I may come across sometimes.


ASRD...show us some good faith for a change.

[Rich99]

A couple of points before I leave this topic alone.

A city area of more than a million people - that equates to a pretty big 4x4 community. Many of them are not club members who carve up the trails and do exactly what they want. As Spinal Guy so correctly put it - if the leaders in that community (the clubs) don't take the initiative on a regular basis (and I know CJA does as much as it can) then its not a matter of "if they will close" the trails, the questions is "when will they close them". Hard nosed attitudes and grudges are of no help and are of little value. ASRD has a mandate and regardless of what we think and what we do, they will take the path of least resistance and do exactly what their "bioengineers", their forestry specialists, and the public tell them too. It doesn't matter what your working relationship is like with them - it didn't in the past and it doesn't today either. The only thing that the 4x community can do is to have clear demonstrable evidence of working hard to make the trails sustainable. I am not saying this will work and I actually doubt it will but for sure doing nothing is a death nail for any trail system within two hours of the big city.

BTW, those noobs that everyone is talking about are grown men, many with super experience and a long history of wheeling in Alberta. Good people to have as members I am sure.

[JackstandJohnny]

fair enough Gunther.  lord knows i cannot blame you.   and i'll keep that in the back of my mind in any dealings with them..........


maybe, gov't can be held accountable to their word one of these days..........  i would hope so. 

until then, just gonna have to do what we can to keep trail systems open.  whatever little bits those are!

[TL-Iguana]

Unfortunately now with some unexpected expenses coming up it doesnt look like Ill be able to make the run on sunday. Sorry guys!! If there is still a run going, i would be happy to drop off the staples somewhere for someone to use, but at this time, I am sorry but I will have to duck out.

[Rich99]

Simon, not to worry - it doesn't look very promising as a run. Perhaps I will go out on my own to do those fixes.